Local Legend Don't Call It An S10

[the bodj]

You're funny if you think stock steering has ANYWHERE near one inch of bump steer with the amount of wheel travel you have.

I know it has more than 1", but I'd like to get that number down as little as possible. I feel like I always read people doing dual swing and they're like 'I got bumpsteer down to less than 1/4" '. Idk, maybe I'm overthinking it?

 

[desert_steve]

Question: are you wanting dual swing because you can feel the bump steer (or other undesirable characteristics) - OR - is it because you know you have bump steer and could possibly make it "better and stronger" while youre in there?

 

[the bodj]

Question: are you wanting dual swing because you can feel the bump steer (or other undesirable characteristics) - OR - is it because you know you have bump steer and could possibly make it "better and stronger" while youre in there?

This


lead to this


Tried straightening it out to get back to camp. Tow strap pulling backwards lead to this


requiring this

 

[desert_steve]

Lol, I forgot about the "free hugs" your truck tries to give at full droop.

Even still, if you cant feel the bump steer and it isnt a problem, I say re-do your steering out of thicker material (we know youre not worried about weight) and call it good.

That all said, my truck has been waiting for a front end prep (and much more) for 10+ yrs, so I have no room to talk about anything.

 

[85Yota]

Yeah stock has multiple inches like 3+ with travel we pull and stock setup.

Mikey and I spent hours cycling the threat steering and couldn't get it less

 

[85Yota]

Yeah but you've been waiting 10 years for your shop to finally get built so that's a good excuse Steve

 

[the bodj]

Lol, I forgot about the "free hugs" your truck tries to give at full droop.

Even still, if you cant feel the bump steer and it isnt a problem, I say re-do your steering out of thicker material (we know youre not worried about weight) and call it good.

That all said, my truck has been waiting for a front end prep (and much more) for 10+ yrs, so I have no room to talk about anything.

It can definitely be felt. Plus the truck is going faster now than it has ever been (I messed with coil slider stop nuts and it helped a TON) so I want a stronger setup. All the weird forces going into the pitman arm can't be good. I have my family in it and want it as strong as possible.

That said, aside from Tommy's experience with the Thread steering, what kind of bumpsteer numbers are reasonable for TTB with dual swing?

 

[85Yota]

Under 1" is great. Biggest improvement on the steering is straight tie rods made of good material not stock weak tie rods which fail, like you experienced

 

[Baconcreekmetal]

Under 1" is great. Biggest improvement on the steering is straight tie rods made of good material not stock weak tie rods which fail, like you experienced

This interesting. Might be be the solution I'm looking for.

 

[84Prerunner]

Take a close look at the desolate dual swing setup. Works very well.

 

[the bodj]

Take a close look at the desolate dual swing setup. Works very well.

They don’t have it online. I’ll have to lurk Instagram posts

 

[the_fablab_]

Take a close look at the desolate dual swing setup. Works very well.

Yeah it’s the same geometry of the steering we were talking about above.

Another positive of dual swing steering is built in steering quickening and a nice place to mount your ram. I hate doing tabs off a tie rod for the ram as you are relying on the heims not misaligning.



I double sheered the ram, but this is just giving you an idea on how to mount the ram

 

[84Prerunner]

Yeah it’s the same geometry of the steering we were talking about above.

Another positive of dual swing steering is built in steering quickening and a nice place to mount your ram. I hate doing tabs off a tie rod for the ram as you are relying on the heims not misaligning.

View attachment 34736

I double sheered the ram, but this is just giving you an idea on how to mount the ram

I also HATEEEE relying on the jam nuts to keep a tie rod from rotating too.
On a ranger I work on a lot I did a uniball on one end of the tie rod and machined delrin wobble stoppers. Has worked great for thousands of race miles with 40s.

 

[96f-u250]

Why were you integrating the radius arm mounts into figuring out where steering swingers will go?

 

[the_fablab_]

Why were you integrating the radius arm mounts into figuring out where steering swingers will go?

Because the radius arm pivot also dictates how the suspension arc swings up and down

 

[the bodj]

Why were you integrating the radius arm mounts into figuring out where steering swingers will go?

Radius arm pivot location dictates the path the hub moves fore and after when looking at the side of the truck. At bump the wheel moves backwards a bit, and the beam arc causes it to move inboard.

 

[the_fablab_]

Is there an echo in here???

 

[Motiracer38]

That would have been my first crack at it, love the visuals. You can solve for it sketching it out in 3D for each case of droop, ride height, and bump and setting the tie rod lengths equal to each other. It's pretty easy to set up in Solidworks if you want to send me the X,Y,Z coordinates of the three pivot points at ride height I can knock it out tonight. You can expand that into optimizing swinger shape for minimizing bump steer while turning since you have accurate beam geometry as well as matching the steer angles for each side.

Beams aren't some mythical tool of redneckery that defy the laws of physics. There just hasn't been as much study of them as A-arms have received since they were bred in a trailer park.

 

[the bodj]

That would have been my first crack at it, love the visuals. You can solve for it sketching it out in 3D for each case of droop, ride height, and bump and setting the tie rod lengths equal to each other. It's pretty easy to set up in Solidworks if you want to send me the X,Y,Z coordinates of the three pivot points at ride height I can knock it out tonight. You can expand that into optimizing swinger shape for minimizing bump steer while turning since you have accurate beam geometry as well as matching the steer angles for each side.

Beams aren't some mythical tool of redneckery that defy the laws of physics. There just hasn't been as much study of them as A-arms have received since they were bred in a trailer park.

Why would I set the tie rod lengths equal to each other if they're unequal length beams?

I really should simplify the drawing to simple lines in a new part file, but having the model there is helpful for checking where things are going to crash.

 

[Motiracer38]

You set the tie rod length for each case equal to each other so that bump steer is zero at those points. This would only be for one side at a time.