Spring Rate Help With Math!

this is the force chart for a few spring options, assuming we are keeping the ride height the same compensated with preload. with a single rate going lighter you loose support at the end of stroke of the shock. when you have dual rates you get the softer initial rate, but the support from a single rate deeper in the travel. for a single shock going lighter may no be the right move. once you get a bypass in there you have the support of the extra damping to help with support deep in the travel.

force a - 600# @ 1" preload
force b - 550# @1.4" preload
force c - 500# @1.75" preload

View attachment 7244
Right on thanks for the chart! Yeah I’m sticking with 600 until the bypasses go on, just trying to get a feel what new spring rate I want to try first when the time comes. I’m thinking I will try the 500 first, as they will fit with my travel/ bump situation , spend some time messing with the bypasses then move up to the 550 if I really need to. As far as valving in the coil over time have a pretty basic flutter setup right now with the bleed holes plugged. What would You recommend for a base for the valving when I get the bypasses? Open up the bleed holes and leave the flutter?
 
Right on thanks for the chart! Yeah I’m sticking with 600 until the bypasses go on, just trying to get a feel what new spring rate I want to try first when the time comes. I’m thinking I will try the 500 first, as they will fit with my travel/ bump situation , spend some time messing with the bypasses then move up to the 550 if I really need to. As far as valving in the coil over time have a pretty basic flutter setup right now with the bleed holes plugged. What would You recommend for a base for the valving when I get the bypasses? Open up the bleed holes and leave the flutter?

im not saying going to a lighter rate isnt worth trying out, but just keep in mind what it does.

what brand of shock?
 
It’s a king 2.5
Current valving
View attachment 7248
what bypass are you going to run? the better the job the bypass does the less we ultimately need in the coil over, most of the time as a base line we will start with a flutter 10 stack both directions and keep the bleeds plugged, if you have a good bypass with good flow and strong bump zone you can back the compression in the coil over off to something like a 8 flutter but these are general setups and the whole system should be looked at as a whole your truck and terrain will dictate your exact needs.
 
I was planning on ordering King 2.5x8, 3tube from JD fab as they order them from King with the specs that work with my JD +4 kit, welded lower eyelet, hose length and valving they say works for that kit
 
I was planning on ordering King 2.5x8, 3tube from JD fab as they order them from King with the specs that work with my JD +4 kit, welded lower eyelet, hose length and valving they say works for that kit
we might have what you need in stock if you get the specs DM us and we can give you a quote and ETA no problem if not we just like to see everyone out there playing ASAP
 
I was planning on ordering King 2.5x8, 3tube from JD fab as they order them from King with the specs that work with my JD +4 kit, welded lower eyelet, hose length and valving they say works for that kit
I'd suggest sending in a quick email to ADS as they suggested.

I've personally always ran King's and I do love them, but having someone on there end that is as attentive and quick to answer like the guys over at ADS shocks says a lot...

At my place of business service is everything and I can attest that a company that prides themselves on service will also have a strong product to back it up.
 
we might have what you need in stock if you get the specs DM us and we can give you a quote and ETA no problem if not we just like to see everyone out there playing ASAP
Awesome thanks! I’m still in the process of fabricating a new shock hoop to mount bypasses and remount the coil over, once I’m finished and double check specs, I will definitely send a message. Thanks!
 
Figuring out a starting spring rate for your project can be difficult, even with corner weights of your vehicle it may be difficult to figure out what spring set up you should run, shock angle and position can all lead to a complicated trigonometry problem that will take half the day.

With a few simple measurements and formulas you can have great success, figuring out the corner force that your coil-over sees is not overly complicated but you will need a few items
1. tape measure
2. a jack that can lift the suspension into a full droop scenario
3. calculator or brush up on your long division
The first thing we need to do is determine the active spring rate that we have. For single rate that number is the rate of your spring as advertised by the manufacturer, for dual rate we use this formula to determine active rate, (upper rate x lower rate) / the sum of the upper and lower = active rate.
Example
10" 100lb/in upper
12" 200lb/in lower
(100x200)/300= 66.66666lbs/in

Secondly we need to know the free length of the springs, we can take this information either before installing them or from the manufacturers listings. Our example springs have a total combined length of (10" upper + 12" lower)=22". We will also need to know the thickness of our slider/spring divider in our example we will use .5" our total free length comes to (22" of spring+.5 slider)=22.5"

Ok now what? what do we do with this information?
We need to grab our tape measure and jack to figure out a few things, we need to know what our corner force is and we need to see how much droop and preload we have on our current set up. we can get all of this information with 2 measurements and simple math.

Step one
Measure the total length of your springs at ride height from top of top spring to bottom of bottom spring in our example we have 16.5"

Step two
Jack up the chassis of the vehicle and allow the suspension to fully droop out (leave your limit straps installed) our measurement comes out to 20.5"

Step three
Time for some math
To figure out our droop we take our ride height and subtract it by our full droop measurement 20.5-16.5=4. We have 4" of droop.

To figure out our preload we take our full droop and subtract if from our free length 22.5-20.5=2. We have 2" of preload.

To get our corner force number we take the preload plus the droop and multiply that by our active rate, (4+2)x66.6666666= (6)x66.6666666=399.99999

On our example vehicle we are using 399.99lbs/in to attain our ride height, Corner Force = 399.99lbs/in

What can we do with this number?
Now that we know how much energy or spring force it takes to hold up our chassis we can use this number to make changes without guessing what preload we need or combined rate.

"Generally" we like to set up vehicles with 2"-4" of preload this all depends on application and intended use and is greatly dictated buy the available springs and travel within the spring.

If you find that you have little to no, or even negative(loose) spring preload this formula will still help you get your springs corrected!

lets work on a messed up coil over set up on Dales Ranger
Dale has a beamed ranger that has less than stellar ride quality. He says his springs are loose and the truck seems overly rough. We had Dale take his measurements here is what he had

upper spring 14x400/lbin
lower spring 16x450/lbin
slider thickness .5"
= Total spring length 30.5" and 211.77lbin active rate.
Dale measured his ride height measurement at 27.5", when he measured his droop measurement the springs were very loose so we had him measure from the mating faces on his coil-over he got 32.5" that is -2" of preload, no good!
Lets finish our formula out
(Preload+Droop)x Active Rate = corner force (-2+5)x211.77= 3x211.77= 635.31 corner force


Dale likes his ride height and we agree that 5" of droop seems right for his application but the -2" of preload is not correct at all.

We know the corner force of his truck and we like our droop we just need to decide what preload we want, for Dale we want 2.5" of preload lets figure out what spring rate his truck wants.

lets take his droop add our desired preload and we can divide that by the corner force and it will give us our new desired combined spring rate.
635.31 corner force /(5" droop+ 2.5" of preload)/ = 635.31/7.5= 84.708.

Our new combined spring rate for 2.5" of preload and 5" of droop would be 84.708lbs/in ! Much different from the 211lb/in we had before.

If we use our formula from earlier we can play around with options of springs that get us to the 84.708 or we can call it 85lb/in to make things easy, a 150lb/in over 200lb/in looks almost perfect at (150x200)/350= 85.714. close enough for what we need!

I hope this little story helps out on getting your toys sprung correctly.

P.S.
Dale soon after cut his truck in half to start a back half project that he never finished, dont be like dale, run some preload and have fun out there your truck shouldnt be kicking your A**
We are doing some projects over here and i realized i left out all of you single rate guys and gals. here is the single rate method


Lets run this scenario on a single rate application and touch on a few common issues in these systems.

Bobbi, has an a-arm Tacoma with a Long travel kit on it, it runs a 8” long coil over with a single 16” 600lbin spring. Before she jacks up the vehicle she takes a measurement of the spring length at ride height. She measures 13”, when she droops out the suspension, the spring is measured again and we find 16”, this would mean there is 0” of preload on the spring, not good!

With our formula we can take our preload add it to our droop and then multiply it by the spring rate and get corner force.

(Preload + Droop) x Spring rate = Corner force

(0 + 3) x 600 = 1800lbs/in

Bobbi’s Tacoma has a front corner force of 1800lbs, she would like to get a spring with some preload in it to make the suspension a little more supple and active at droop for better traction.

Lets play with our formula and see what rate we can that allows for roughly 1-1.5” of preload we like the droop and will let that stay the same.

1800 / (Preload + Droop) = new rate

1800 / (1” + 3”) = 450lb/in

1800 / (1.5” + 3”) = 400lb/in

So it looks like we can just grab a 16” 400 or 450 and slap it on and run with our added preload right? Wrong! We need to check our spring travel and coil bind to see if these springs will work (short travel coilovers are a tricky balance between desired rate and available travel in the springs)

Lets check the spring travel numbers from Eibachs website, we find the following travel numbers listed for each spring

16 x 600lb/in 8.28” total travel

16 x 400lb/in 9.39” total travel

16 x 450lb/in 9.19” total travel

18 x 400lb/in 10.24" total travel

18 x 450lb/in 9.81” total travel

With the total travel numbers we can take our coil over travel and add it to our preload and see if we will coil bind or not, we need to have more travel in the coil spring than what is required for preload and shock travel.

16 x 600 spring

0 preload + 8” shock travel = 8” of spring travel required, we have 8.28” so we are good.

16 x 400 spring

1.5” Preload + 8” shock travel = 9.5” of spring travel required, we have 9.39” NO GOOD COIL BIND! This spring will not work for us



16 x 450 spring


1” preload + 8” shock travel = 9” of spring travel required, we have 9.19” this spring will work it has .19” more than we need so it will not coil bind, this margin is very little and will not allow for much adjustment if our measurements were slightly off.

So what should we do? Is Bobbi stuck with her 16 x 600 spring and no preload? We have the potential to run a longer spring with more spring travel in it and give her a bigger margin of error, allowing a lighter rate to be used. She has 1.5” of threads showing on her coil over body so there is room to move it up and, the spring rate she wants to run does require preload so it looks like it is possible to run an 18” spring. Lets check!

18 x 400 spring

1.5” preload + 8” shock travel = 9.5” of spring travel required, we have 10.24” we have .74” of spring travel left allowing for margin of error or future adjustment. This spring will work!

18 x 450 spring

1.0” preload + 8” of shock travel = 9” of spring travel required, we have 9.81” of spring travel this spring will work and has .81” of travel left over for future adjustment or margin of error more than our 18 x 400lb/in

Since Bobbi, is not running a bypass only a secondary bump stop we will sway her towards the 450lb/in to give a little more resistance at full bump.
 
@ADSRACINGSHOCKS huge thanks for all this info!
got the measurements and it seems like i have a whopping 1/2" of preload with a 500/600 rate.
Ive always felt like the truck rode like shit compared to what it could be, but the problem i have is my ride height is too tall in the front.
1/2" of preload is all i was able to do without cruising around looking at the sky without the coil being completely loose. Right now it doesn't move up or down @ droop, but i can spin it with my hand, which i'm sure is horrible.

Anyone have any tips or tricks for shock rookie?
I can get more measurements for travel from ride height to bump/droop and how much body i have if i need to go to a taller spring.

F31 deavers in the rear with a flipped shackle/hangar.
I'd like the truck to sit a little more level (so maybe drop 1" to 1.5") but get the recommended 2"-3" of preload that ADS mentioned.

Im gonna be trying some combo's on that awesome formula, but i truly don't know what i am doing with shocks.
Maybe a 350 upper spring? But i see King only has an 8" 350, so might not be able to fit that.

Thanks again for taking the time posting that info!
 

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if the ride height is where you want it with some preload and it rides like crap … open the shock up and that a look. i bet you got lots of compression and a ton of rebound.
 
if the ride height is where you want it with some preload and it rides like crap … open the shock up and that a look. i bet you got lots of compression and a ton of rebound.
They for sure have a change in valving, it was ID'd on the tag but that tag is unfortunately buried in my storage until Dec. 28th. I think i got my pair of shocks by accident and someone else got mine. Id like to drop the ride height at least 1" and also be able to run some preload.

Totally open to restoring the shock back to stock valving though. Once i get my tools and a garage back Ill be able to do it alot easier.

if you think thats a good idea, ill probably do that first before ordering any new coils. At least find out if that is the source of the shit ride quality.
Gonna keep looking, hopefully have a picture or something of the shock tag that shows the current change.
 
@ADSRACINGSHOCKS huge thanks for all this info!
got the measurements and it seems like i have a whopping 1/2" of preload with a 500/600 rate.
Ive always felt like the truck rode like shit compared to what it could be, but the problem i have is my ride height is too tall in the front.
1/2" of preload is all i was able to do without cruising around looking at the sky without the coil being completely loose. Right now it doesn't move up or down @ droop, but i can spin it with my hand, which i'm sure is horrible.

Anyone have any tips or tricks for shock rookie?
I can get more measurements for travel from ride height to bump/droop and how much body i have if i need to go to a taller spring.

F31 deavers in the rear with a flipped shackle/hangar.
I'd like the truck to sit a little more level (so maybe drop 1" to 1.5") but get the recommended 2"-3" of preload that ADS mentioned.

Im gonna be trying some combo's on that awesome formula, but i truly don't know what i am doing with shocks.
Maybe a 350 upper spring? But i see King only has an 8" 350, so might not be able to fit that.

Thanks again for taking the time posting that info!
with your corner force figuring out our desired rate is easy, looks like your math shows 1295CF sounds about right your 4.25" of droop sounds close but your saying your still a touch high so we will use 4.75" as your new droop number and add 2" for preload as a starting point,
(Droop + Preload)/ corner force = desired rate (4.75+2)/1295= 191.85 desired rate
350/400 is 186.66
300/500 is a 187.5
being a single coil over with no bypass you could lean for the heavier lower to provide bottoming resistance, once spring right you can play with valving and dial it all in, all this math was done with a guess at your droop of 4.75, what you can do is set your ride height where you want it and then see what that droop actually is we dont care if springs go loose when we are just measuring
hope this is helpful your on the right track for sure
 
with your corner force figuring out our desired rate is easy, looks like your math shows 1295CF sounds about right your 4.25" of droop sounds close but your saying your still a touch high so we will use 4.75" as your new droop number and add 2" for preload as a starting point,
(Droop + Preload)/ corner force = desired rate (4.75+2)/1295= 191.85 desired rate
350/400 is 186.66
300/500 is a 187.5
being a single coil over with no bypass you could lean for the heavier lower to provide bottoming resistance, once spring right you can play with valving and dial it all in, all this math was done with a guess at your droop of 4.75, what you can do is set your ride height where you want it and then see what that droop actually is we dont care if springs go loose when we are just measuring
hope this is helpful your on the right track for sure
you guys are awesome helping out the little guys!
Thanks for the info, ill do exactly that!
 
happy to help even if your running those nasty blue things :ROFLMAO:
How about some direction for the guy running 3.0s with short top springs that are smashed at ride height and long lowers? Not very often do you see them ran with equal or close to equal length springs.
 
Another question as well.
I’ve seen my friends SxS that was professionally tuned by a local shop. He’s running a dual rate setup but the same weight springs on top and bottom. That makes no sense to me? Why would you do that? Is that legit or did the shop just throw whatever they had laying around on his ride knowing my friend has no clue?
 
Another question as well.
I’ve seen my friends SxS that was professionally tuned by a local shop. He’s running a dual rate setup but the same weight springs on top and bottom. That makes no sense to me? Why would you do that? Is that legit or did the shop just throw whatever they had laying around on his ride knowing my friend has no clue?
Makes perfect sense, I’ve even ran heavier top than bottom a few times. The piece you aren’t considering here is both springs are compressing equally in your scenario making the active rate half of the rate stamped on the spring until the secondary nuts hit. In other words with 2 equal rate springs you’re still doubling the spring rate when the secondaries hit.
 
Makes perfect sense, I’ve even ran heavier top than bottom a few times. The piece you aren’t considering here is both springs are compressing equally in your scenario making the active rate half of the rate stamped on the spring until the secondary nuts hit. In other words with 2 equal rate springs you’re still doubling the spring rate when the secondaries hit.
So if you run the same weight on both springs, you should run equal length springs? Or can you run the same weight but one shorter and one taller?
 
How about some direction for the guy running 3.0s with short top springs that are smashed at ride height and long lowers? Not very often do you see them ran with equal or close to equal length springs.
shoot us a message with your set up id love to see if we can help out.
 
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