88’ Raingutter Ranger

[MTSuarez]

What antisquat numbers are you shooting for? I've got 2/3 your travel, but I'm in the 20-30% range and absolutely love it.

I’ve been seeing different views everywhere. I’m leaning toward a 70% with the ability to adjust down towards 60% and up to 80%.

 

[MTSuarez]

You have a ride height of 19", lowers are at 21" and uppers 27.35". Your u joint CL at the trans needs to be lower in the chassis to achieve less plunge. Your lowers are 60" and your upper links are 49.75" long? The pinion will need to rotate up (some) at droop or you'll have binding at the diff u joint and bad angles at the trans. I would focus on making the driveline happy first and then shoot for your AS numbers. Your CG location will be a guess at this point, which will make you AS numbers a guess as well. Another thing is to pay attention to is your axle location at full bump, too far up and the horizontal separation of the chassis tube layout gets weak (too close together).

I have almost the exact set up on my chassis table right now. 60" lowers, 51" uppers with 7" vertical separation at the frame and a ride height of 19". 15" up travel puts the tire (40's) at the top of the bedsides without touching on F150 Raptor glass.

I’ll mess around with changing the tranny location in space but it’s already slammed to the floor of the chassis (have both the engine and tranny 3D models imported into the file)

My CG is roughly 34” from the ground (measuring from the engine scan)

What changes in pinion angle are you seeing on your build? If our builds are that close I’m sure you’re seeing about the same.

 

[FasterNU]

36 fan coming in with all the good info.

We get slight driveline vibrations at full droop on all 4x trucks, I swear. Too much angle from the dangle.

Thats why I originally asked how your driveline would make it with those #'s. While the shocks would allow more travel, the driveline won't on ours for sure.

Curious on pinion angle changes too. I think mine was over 10* change (13 is in my mind for some reason) ... wish DR was still up so I could reference all those notes!

 

[MTSuarez]

36 fan coming in with all the good info.

We get slight driveline vibrations at full droop on all 4x trucks, I swear. Too much angle from the dangle.

Thats why I originally asked how your driveline would make it with those #'s. While the shocks would allow more travel, the driveline won't on ours for sure.

Curious on pinion angle changes too. I think mine was over 10* change (13 is in my mind for some reason) ... wish DR was still up so I could reference all those notes!

I’m sitting at 10° change over 30” of travel. I don’t think that’s terrible. Just trying to get a gauge where everyone else is since I’ve seen both setups with keeping the driveline “parallel” as well as keeping it pointed toward the transmission output.

 

[36Fan]

I dont have the numbers in front of me right now. If you try to keep it parallel throughout the travel you'll have to watch the trans u joint degrees, binding at the diff yoke and plunge. Mine stays pretty consistent but points upward towards the trans more at full droop and 1" of plunge. Motor/trans around 4-5 degrees down. A 16/18" shock combo with +3 ends puts the mounts up higher in the cab than I want with 15" of up travel, also interferes with the rear seat lay which is a pain. 13-14" up and 15-16" down is more realistic scenario.

 

[Pictafiedesign]

Do you have motor and trans sitting parallel to the ground? You can rotate your motor/trans up to 6 degrees imo (again up for debate) to lower your rear tail shaft and help your alignment and plunge of the driveline. I'm at 1.6" of plunge with 32" of travel.

 

[MTSuarez]

Do you have motor and trans sitting parallel to the ground? You can rotate your motor/trans up to 6 degrees imo (again up for debate) to lower your rear tail shaft and help your alignment and plunge of the driveline. I'm at 1.6" of plunge with 32" of travel.

It’s at 3° right now. I’m gonna see if angling it more affects any clearance on the chassis. Mostly maxed out going down with the transmission since it’s already sitting on the radius arm cross member.

 

[MTSuarez]

I dont have the numbers in front of me right now. If you try to keep it parallel throughout the travel you'll have to watch the trans u joint degrees, binding at the diff yoke and plunge. Mine stays pretty consistent but points upward towards the trans more at full droop and 1" of plunge. Motor/trans around 4-5 degrees down. A 16/18" shock combo with +3 ends puts the mounts up higher in the cab than I want with 15" of up travel, also interferes with the rear seat lay which is a pain. 13-14" up and 15-16" down is more realistic scenario.

Do you have motor and trans sitting parallel to the ground? You can rotate your motor/trans up to 6 degrees imo (again up for debate) to lower your rear tail shaft and help your alignment and plunge of the driveline. I'm at 1.6" of plunge with 32" of travel.

Ended up angling the motor/tranny to 5° and was able to drop the transmission output another 2.5”. Now getting 1.4” of plunge over the 30” metal to metal. I appreciate the help guys.

But still wondering from anyone, still seeing two options for the pinion angle debate. I see trucks keeping the pinion rotating towards the transmission, and those that try to keep it parallel. How much angle change is too much? Again I’m sitting at 10° (6° rotation down at full bump, 4° up at full droop)

 

[36Fan]

You'll never get the "This is what you should do" answer. Everyone will have their opinion of what's correct, just as everyone will have a different idea of what is the importance list. Some say AS is top priority and others will say plunge etc. Call and talk to some of the higher end driveline shops that deal with desert trucks (not rock donkeys) and 99% will say plunge kills drive lines. It's the one variable that doesn't change once its built.

CAD is awesome but sometimes a visual tool can make your life much easier and answer your questions and thoughts by seeing it first hand. Build yourself a mock up rear suspension,its really easy and you can make it out of wood or whatever metals you want, lay it on the garage floor and start measuring. Build mine out of thin aluminum, didnt take long to do.

 

[MTSuarez]

Got a good chunk of progress done on the truck. Looking like the cab (not including interior tube work/tranny tunnel) and the back half of the truck is finalized. Ended up completely redesigning my link pivots to have three holes to adjust the upper link (roughly 60, 70, 80% AS), and shortened the uppers for a bit more strength and better triangulation (40+ degrees). Of course in doing so, I changed the cab tube layout and had to go back to alter it. Driveshaft plunge will be around 1-1.4" depending on how much lower I plan to mount the tranny. I appreciate all the help so far, looking forward to getting this on a fixture table.

 

[Pictafiedesign]

Very cool dude! Looking awesome so far

 

[2012SVTSC]

This build is rad. Nice job and I appreciate all the details you are sharing.

 

[MTSuarez]

This build is rad. Nice job and I appreciate all the details you are sharing.

I appreciate it, always hope that something in here helps the next guy building something!

 

[MTSuarez]

Very cool dude! Looking awesome so far

Thanks Dave for all your input throughout the thread

 

[Pictafiedesign]

Thanks Dave for all your input throughout the thread

No problem! Always cool to look at how other people go about their builds

 

[MTSuarez]

We are getting close! From Main Cab to Fuel Cell Carrier, tubes have all been normalized and got quotes back for. Working on the front frame/suspension components and currently stuck on the Motor Plate. Looking to do 3/8inch aluminum machined plate, does anyone have experience installing one? I can only find them installed but no one talks about any modifications for the engine or transmission to work with the added gap between the two. Thanks!

 

[Klever]

We are getting close! From Main Cab to Fuel Cell Carrier, tubes have all been normalized and got quotes back for. Working on the front frame/suspension components and currently stuck on the Motor Plate. Looking to do 3/8inch aluminum machined plate, does anyone have experience installing one? I can only find them installed but no one talks about any modifications for the engine or transmission to work with the added gap between the two. Thanks!

3/8" is pretty thin. The only mod you'll need to do is spacing with the torque converter, starter spacing, longer dowel pins, etc. Looks like a Ford engine with a C6?

Personally I would soft mount the engine and transmission. Makes for a way quieter and smoother deal. I would also recommend an overdrive transmission; you'll be bummed with a C6 (hard to get parts; and only 3 forward gears). i would do a Reid Case 4L80 with a Ford bellhousing if you want to keep the Ford engine. It'll bolt right up

 

[MTSuarez]

3/8" is pretty thin. The only mod you'll need to do is spacing with the torque converter, starter spacing, longer dowel pins, etc. Looks like a Ford engine with a C6?

Personally I would soft mount the engine and transmission. Makes for a way quieter and smoother deal. I would also recommend an overdrive transmission; you'll be bummed with a C6 (hard to get parts; and only 3 forward gears). i would do a Reid Case 4L80 with a Ford bellhousing if you want to keep the Ford engine. It'll bolt right up

Yea its a Culhane C6, have had it in the truck the last several years and just had it rebuilt so ill be sticking with it for now. Only reason im looking to put one in is to keep the transmission in place if and when the motor gets pulled out for maintenance. Ill keep the Reid Case in mind for later down the line.

 

[Klever]

Yea its a Culhane C6, have had it in the truck the last several years and just had it rebuilt so ill be sticking with it for now. Only reason im looking to put one in is to keep the transmission in place if and when the motor gets pulled out for maintenance. Ill keep the Reid Case in mind for later down the line.

Ah nice! Yeah then run what you have already . Just changing stuff later down the road can be a pain ha ha!

 

[MTSuarez]

Ah nice! Yeah then run what you have already . Just changing stuff later down the road can be a pain ha ha!

No kidding, just happy I've changed things a million times on the computer rather than cut it off my truck again.