Local Legend Mai-Tai-Yota

[Cleandezert]

anyone else read through this and feel really dumb or is it just me. Really impressed with your abilities.

 

[Exploder_M]

anyone else read through this and feel really dumb or is it just me. Really impressed with your abilities.

. He's very skilled

 

[Motiracer38]

That definitely wasn't my intent, I just tend to geek out over mechanical assemblies and try to explain my reasoning so it opens it up for peer review. I have been corrected numerous times and it's a whole lot easier to correct it in design or build than the side of the trail. I'm the dumb one here as everybody else's truck is out running around and I keep cutting mine apart.

Not yet Mikey, the outer driveshaft angle will be the limiting factor for droop at full steer and I've yet to factor in the anti dive impact. Good news is that the up travel is only limited by the chassis dragging in the dirt!

 

[Motiracer38]

I do need some help though, what is the best joint for steering swingers?

In my mind..
Urethane bushings have play and lots of drag
Delrin bushings are free-er but I've had problems developing play as it wears
Brass bushings seem to wear faster than Delrin unless I'm doing something wrong
Uniballs or hiems would have some drag and need multiples to only rotate like a bushing
Needle bearings aren't sealed and need a polished inner shaft
Sealed roller bearings aren't rated all that high in the 1.5in OD range
Unit bearings are too big even in a 4 lug car and are single shear.
UTV bearings are a unitized back to back tapered roller bearing with seals but seem too big and are all goofy metric sizes

 

[Camper shell fun]

Thanks for the heads up, I have lived through the upper crossmember and bushing problems on 3 different generations of Toyotas and know it well. Interesting that the 4wd has a noticeable effect on wear as usually braking forces far exceed the force that a driven front wheel would exert but maybe the opposing forces come into play. That's mainly the front bushing right?

I do plan to build the upper around both shocks so have about a 15in spread using 7/8 heims and 5/8 hardware. I've locked in the arm geometry and started modeling the lower arm subframe so that I can get the steering dialed in. Working dual path on a CNC plasma cutter and it has me bogged down on building the control box right now. I should make a build thread on that as it's been a lot of fun.

Oh then that’s for sure wide enough to handle the leverage. And yes it’s the front bushings that tend to ware out. It’s nothing crazy, it just noticeable when going from acceleration to braking you can feel the arm slightly shift when the bushings ware out.

 

[Camper shell fun]

I do need some help though, what is the best joint for steering swingers?

In my mind..
Urethane bushings have play and lots of drag
Delrin bushings are free-er but I've had problems developing play as it wears
Brass bushings seem to wear faster than Delrin unless I'm doing something wrong
Uniballs or hiems would have some drag and need multiples to only rotate like a bushing
Needle bearings aren't sealed and need a polished inner shaft
Sealed roller bearings aren't rated all that high in the 1.5in OD range
Unit bearings are too big even in a 4 lug car and are single shear.
UTV bearings are a unitized back to back tapered roller bearing with seals but seem too big and are all goofy metric sizes

Hold please, I have some weird ideas for swingers and bearings. I’ve always wanted to try these but haven’t had the project to use them on yet. I can tell you not to use Teflon as a bushing that takes any kind of shock load. I turned my own bushings out of “virgin Teflon” and although it had a very low coefficient of friction, it has poor memory so once it compresses it doesn’t fully return to its original shape. So if you look into bushings and those types of material look for something that has good impact resistance.

 

[Camper shell fun]

So I've always wanted to try these bearings, they make sealed and non sealed versions. They are called "combination" or "combined" bearings. they deal with thrust and radial load. I feel like they would make great pivots for swingers or any type of pivot that doesn't need any misalignment.

 

[Motiracer38]

Those look promising but from a quick search, holy hell they are pricey! I'll have to dig into them later as I don't understand the sealing on them yet. I have renderings of my two top runners I'll post later but if there's a simpler option then I'm in.

And yes Mikey, simpler would be to run delrin bushings bought from Kartek like all the I-beam guys.

 

[84Prerunner]

I have had great luck using UHMW as suspension pivots, never tried or swingers.
Race truck I regularly prep uses hard bronze on the swingers. We get couple thousand miles out of them with a big v8 and 40” tires in race conditions.
I have also used 2 uniballs with a crush sleeve between them on a swinger. Kind of a pain in the ass to setup initially but was very smooth once setup. No idea on life, haven’t seen it since it left the shop.

 

[Motiracer38]

The uniball design is a front runner. No lube and no seals required. 1.5x.25 wall tube, COM10 bearings, standard spacer, and 5/8" bolt.


Tapered bearings are tempting though, 2x.25 wall tube, Set10 bearings and a seal I can't yet find with standard spacers and a 1/2" bolt.

 

[the bodj]

Just do the uniballs. Why add in machining the 2” tube, making sure preload is set right, lock nuts… with the tapered bearings?

 

[Motiracer38]

Tapered bearings would be way less friction than uniballs which would add drag to the steering wheel. Even just the tie rod heims add a bunch of drag to the steering that would be nice to eliminate. The need to machine a housing and preload sleeve either way.

 

[84Prerunner]

Tapered bearings would be way less friction than uniballs which would add drag to the steering wheel. Even just the tie rod heims add a bunch of drag to the steering that would be nice to eliminate. The need to machine a housing and preload sleeve either way.

Use ram assist, you can weld your steering together and it’ll still steer with a ram

 

[the_fablab_]

Ram assist is the way. I resisted for so long and now that I have it, I would never go back!

 

[84Prerunner]

Ram assist is the way. I resisted for so long and now that I have it, I would never go back!

Same here! I had the ram sitting on a shelf for a few years. Finally installed it last year, total game changer, I’ll never go back.

 

[Motiracer38]

A ram is on the parts shelf and I suppose it would cure all excess friction. Uniballs are probably less maintenance too, I'm tired of working on this thing all the time.

 

[85Yota]

Uniballs for swingers. The resistance from the swinger bearing is negligible and wouldn't notice it.

How much ground clearance do you have between lower crossmember and ground at full bump with aired up tires?

 

[dwphoto]

Big local legend guy

 

[charlie brown]

i have been running roller bearings for .....ever. my 1st swing set (un-equal) was on the truck for about 20 years.
i am only my 2nd set of equal length swing set and they are going on 15 years.

i am setting up a new set now just because they are thicker material. got this set from dave at threat. i asked him if he could set them up with bearings. he said yes and shipped it to me. he put uniballs in them. but they dont work at least like a bearing. they have too much friction. the hole bear race wants to spin. so i bought some new roller bearings and setting it up.
my truck is 25 years old and has always had roller bearing in the swing set. i dont rave my truck but it has lots of hard offroad play and prerun miles

 

[Brett_408]

I've never heard of roller bearing swingers till now. Does the bolt and nut set the bearing preload? I'm assuming Double nut? Cotter pin? something to that affect? or just a crush sleeve and Neanderthal strength like hubs.