“The Stocker” phaze 2

[Endless Trails]

definetely a stupid question, even for me, but............. i dont understand this whole setup. is it just to eliminate axle wrap? i can see if you did one setup over the other for axle wrap, but both seem redundant? (think thats the right smart word.... but im medically ratarded soooooooooo......... haha)

wouldnt just the upper "link"/pannhard bar (i think thats what it is?) do the same thing as the chingadearas coming off the lower spring plate/perch, to the front of the axle??

please explain it to a 6.9 year old, Geoff!

I want to hear the theory better as well to see how close I am to guessing the engineering.

My take is that separating the axle from the springs might free up the movement of the springs. The upper bars will control the axle wrap by themselves, but wouldn't allow pinion adjustment. The spring from the front mount to the spring pad will lengthen as it flattens (compresses). If that is getting longer and the anti wrap bars (upper lengths) is fixed length then the two fight. This design could also keep the pinion angle where you want it through the travel.
The panhard just controls the horizontal movement. Typically the having the axle clamped hard to both springs and the front spring bushings being fairly tight in the front mounts great a box that controls the side to side.

How close am I because I am mostly guessing?

 

[the bodj]

I want to hear the theory better as well to see how close I am to guessing the engineering.

My take is that separating the axle from the springs might free up the movement of the springs. The upper bars will control the axle wrap by themselves, but wouldn't allow pinion adjustment. The spring from the front mount to the spring pad will lengthen as it flattens (compresses). If that is getting longer and the anti wrap bars (upper lengths) is fixed length then the two fight. This design could also keep the pinion angle where you want it through the travel.
The panhard just controls the horizontal movement. Typically the having the axle clamped hard to both springs and the front spring bushings being fairly tight in the front mounts great a box that controls the side to side.

How close am I because I am mostly guessing?

The two won't fight, since they pivot at both upper and lower mounts on the axle, like a linked truck. The only difference is that, like you said, the lower link (spring) will grow a bit as it bumps, possibly causing the pinion to want to point down. This can be mitigated by upper link placement/length

 

[Giant Geoff]

Eliminates the U-bolt, eliminates Axle wrap, takes all the different loads off the spring, torsion and laterally. Plus with the geometry loading the Upper Link forward it will give it different drivability
characteristics that are improved.

They mostly donate to help the 2000 leaf spring class, but mostly I like to innovate and work out concepts in reality where I feel satisfied and earn a personal sense of accomplishment.

 

[Giant Geoff]

I want to hear the theory better as well to see how close I am to guessing the engineering.

My take is that separating the axle from the springs might free up the movement of the springs. The upper bars will control the axle wrap by themselves, but wouldn't allow pinion adjustment. The spring from the front mount to the spring pad will lengthen as it flattens (compresses). If that is getting longer and the anti wrap bars (upper lengths) is fixed length then the two fight. This design could also keep the pinion angle where you want it through the travel.
The panhard just controls the horizontal movement. Typically the having the axle clamped hard to both springs and the front spring bushings being fairly tight in the front mounts great a box that controls the side to side.

How close am I because I am mostly guessing?

You are spot on! And I forgot to add the adjustable pinion angle. You understand a lot and it’s very cool to see.

 

[Giant Geoff]

I got it finished and on the ground.

 

[85Yota]

Looks awesome. Did you try and drive it without the panhard bar?

 

[Giant Geoff]

When it is dropped out the axle swings side to side pretty bad but only a little bit with the weight of it on Ride Heights. I had to do the pan.

 

[Giant Geoff]

Update on going Racing class 2000 with the family.
Getting it set up to be race legal, we were gonna have to cut a big hole in the bed for the gas tank and cut the inner fender wheels out so the tires don’t rub and taller shocks later coming through so we just decided to cut the whole back out.

 

[MikeLara]

This goes against everything you have ever told us. Snowball has reached terminal velocity.

 

[Giant Geoff]

This goes against everything you have ever told us. Snowball has reached terminal velocity.

Hahaha! The pre-runners can take one week to put together, but these silly race trucks need a lot more.

I am running the stuck fuel pump in the tank and you know that has been crazy reliable, and a lot cheaper with less time to make work.

 

[Kellyex1450]

These are some rad innovations you’ve got here — I can really see how this setup could prolong leaf-spring life and let the pack act more like a true spring instead of carrying so many secondary stresses.


Since you’ve clearly put a ton of thought and experience into leaf-spring systems, I wanted to ask your take on something I’ve been playing with: different ways of bolting the springs to the front and rear pivots.


I’ve had better luck packing the pivots with a ton of grease and leaving the bolts just a hair loose — it seems to let everything move and rebound faster. That said, I’ve always wondered why nobody runs bearings on the pivots to cut friction, or maybe does something like semi-truck setups that use cross-shafts, crush sleeves, and spring pins. Those reduce the need for big clamping force but still keep everything tight and aligned.


Curious to hear your thoughts on that, especially since you’re clearly not afraid to try unconventional stuff. Maybe it’s all unnecessary — but it feels like there’s still some untapped potential in how we let leafs move freely.

I've been meaning to ask @Camper shell fun the same thing.

 

[Giant Geoff]

These are some rad innovations you’ve got here — I can really see how this setup could prolong leaf-spring life and let the pack act more like a true spring instead of carrying so many secondary stresses.


Since you’ve clearly put a ton of thought and experience into leaf-spring systems, I wanted to ask your take on something I’ve been playing with: different ways of bolting the springs to the front and rear pivots.


I’ve had better luck packing the pivots with a ton of grease and leaving the bolts just a hair loose — it seems to let everything move and rebound faster. That said, I’ve always wondered why nobody runs bearings on the pivots to cut friction, or maybe does something like semi-truck setups that use cross-shafts, crush sleeves, and spring pins. Those reduce the need for big clamping force but still keep everything tight and aligned.


Curious to hear your thoughts on that, especially since you’re clearly not afraid to try unconventional stuff. Maybe it’s all unnecessary — but it feels like there’s still some untapped potential in how we let leafs move freely.

I've been meaning to ask @Camper shell fun the same thing.

Everyone thinks leaving the hardware loose is the way to go about it, but you could oval the holes of your brackets. The two big problems are, the spring material itself is too wide and if you shave down the width of the eyes to be narrower, the sleeve will stick outside the bushing more instead of the sleeve being narrower than the overall width of the Bushings in the spring. Secondly, most sleeves are .095 wall, which is quite thin and knives into your bracket, and when you tighten the hardware the sleeve sees onto the bolt so I just run a thicker wall sleeve and tighten the living hell of the mounts.

 

[Endless Trails]

These are some rad innovations you’ve got here — I can really see how this setup could prolong leaf-spring life and let the pack act more like a true spring instead of carrying so many secondary stresses.


Since you’ve clearly put a ton of thought and experience into leaf-spring systems, I wanted to ask your take on something I’ve been playing with: different ways of bolting the springs to the front and rear pivots.


I’ve had better luck packing the pivots with a ton of grease and leaving the bolts just a hair loose — it seems to let everything move and rebound faster. That said, I’ve always wondered why nobody runs bearings on the pivots to cut friction, or maybe does something like semi-truck setups that use cross-shafts, crush sleeves, and spring pins. Those reduce the need for big clamping force but still keep everything tight and aligned.


Curious to hear your thoughts on that, especially since you’re clearly not afraid to try unconventional stuff. Maybe it’s all unnecessary — but it feels like there’s still some untapped potential in how we let leafs move freely.

I've been meaning to ask @Camper shell fun the same thing.

https://www.alcanspring.com/orbit-eyes
I had to search but I remembered these from some Pirate4x4 threads a long time ago.

 

[85Yota]

Yes. Deaver did the "Baja Bushings" for a while but the problem was they were basically a small like 3/4" COM bearing and wouldn't last. Helton ran them because sponsored but had to change them after every time he ran the SYT.

https://www.race-dezert.com/forum/threads/deavers-spherical-leaf-bushing.18738/

 

[Giant Geoff]

Yes. Deaver did the "Baja Bushings" for a while but the problem was they were basically a small like 3/4" COM bearing and wouldn't last. Helton ran them because sponsored but had to change them after every time he ran the SYT.

https://www.race-dezert.com/forum/threads/deavers-spherical-leaf-bushing.18738/

Plus, the bolts would bend because all the force was in the center where the small bearing was.

 

[Kellyex1450]

Here is how lots of semis do shackles. I always thought this would be a good design scaled down.

 

[Giant Geoff]

Got the gas tank, secured and forward spare tire mount.

 

[Tree trunk]

Nice work

What size fuel cell is that?

 

[85Yota]

Looks like 32 gal jeepspeed cell

 

[Giant Geoff]

Nice work

What size fuel cell is that?

It’s a 32 gallon IRC that cost $530 but while I was looking an ad popped up that would sell it for $430 and then Walmart ad popped up then I got it for $330.

I do not like how unreliable, expensive and time-consuming the external pumps are so I make my own blank Fuel Plate and running the stock pump in the tank to where I never break down anymore.

Tommy T. I don’t like the Jeep Speed for the high cost and it’s actually like 26 gallons.