D44 TTB Stock Steering Issues

[84projectFORD]

Alright, so first off, I know this is not going to be an apples to apples comparison because my front end is not 100% cross over to a bronco and I’ll explain why but first the issue.

So the grand tracker is up and running. First test drive a month back showed toe way the fuck out and she was all over the pavement but had an interesting issue. Turn right, turns like normal. Turn left and front end jacks up and rf tire scrubs hard. Slight turn or multiple cranks into the wheel, doesn’t matter.

Couple weeks later, go off road testing and does well in the dirt. Ride height was too high so dropped it down an inch. Also moved the tracker in and out of the shop multiple times to get the toe set at 0 or 1/16 in at ride height. Did not fix my pavement issue but helped with is driving straight. In dirt you don’t notice it at much but turning left you can see the rf pushing dirt yet turning right it does not.

Now what is done. Steering is the “ambulance” upgraded steering and I had to put a bend in the pass side tie rod to clear my shock mount. Not a ton, I think 5-8*. Pitman arm is stock, steering box is stock, beam mounts are stock but has uniball pivots. Radius arms are 36” long from back of beam to pivot. I have 12* of caster in the thing and did 5/8” c&t on the beams to get camber flat at ride height. Im guessing I’m 2-3” higher than stock. The frame is also not flat, it is raked up 8* if you measure where the stock spring mounts go. Figured it help keep faster from going negative at droop and it lowered my ride height.

That said, something is not right. I get it’s not going to be a handling machine on the road but it shouldn’t be doing what it is. Maybe some under hard turning. I noticed desolate and solo sell drop pitman arms with their kits. Wonder if that’s something I need to look into? With the raked frame, it moves the pitman arm up higher in relation to where the radius arm pivot and beam pivot imaginary line would go through to the pitman arm. It’s about 2.5” above that line (best guess as i just jumped under it to kinda look at this)

Thoughts? Bend in the tie rod screwing me? Pitman arm too high? I’d like to hold off on swing steering but shit, I may have to do it sooner than later if that’s the fix

 

[philofab]

Congratulations! You built a truck that likes to 3 wheel! Mark McNeil would be proud.

You have a spool? Short wheelbase and light vehicle will make the front end lift when turning since you raised the pivots. It's called a jacking effect. The passenger beam is shorter that amplifies it. Having a spool amplifies it. Having soft suspension amplifies it.

Building a single swinger steering setup *might* help, but it's hard to tell without seeing where the radius arm pivots are. The steering on i beam trucks like to be on the axis of the radius arm pivot to the beam pivot, but offset to create tow in on droop and tow out on compression.

More than likely you'll need to play with spring rates/rebound in the front shocks and add a sway bar in the rear.

 

[84projectFORD]

No spool (lunch box locker in the back but it’s not engaged during turning), body roll is minimal and probably less than the rig was before. Springs are 8” 300 over 18” 350 and I have 1” of preload in them. Crossover is 1/2” from touching at ride height.



Probably the best I have right now of the radius arm and beam pivots

 

[96f-u250]

Ive had the same issue with the past two beam setups I built. I figured it wasnt enough KPI angle. Going from stock steering to single swing didnt help on the first one truck with unequal beams.. Second one on my Ranger was equal length beams and no bent tie rods/drag links with dual swing steering. Second Truck still lifts while turning going forward and ride height goes down while turning in reverse. The next thing im going to try is slight toe out on the alignment rack. These trucks specs on Hunters WinAlign are like 0.3* to -0.3* total toe.

 

[84projectFORD]

I don’t mind some front end rise, I can deal with that but when you come into a corner at 50 mph that’s nothing more than a slight corner and the front end rises to max droop causing massive tire scrub and extremely twitchy steering something ain’t right. It’s legit not on road drivable.

 

[96f-u250]

Oh. Yeh thats a little different. I thought we were talking slow speed. Adding a little toe out is still a quick easy experiment to see if thats a factor. Also like you’re saying, a drop pitman arm to get the angles better might help.

 

[84projectFORD]

Yeah I may try a bunch of toe out and see what happens. I did order a drop pitman arm, should be in today. I can try that too.

I can’t think it’s the bend in the tie rod because guys do that on swing set steering to. I’d assume the imaginary line from pivot to pivot on the tie rod pivots is still the same so in theory, Ackerman shouldn’t change

 

[96f-u250]

Have you lifted the front corners up individually and checked the wheel bearings and ball joints for play. Then also shake the wheel side to side on the ground and checked for steering components play. My old bent tie tods were 1”x1/4” wall and they would flex where the bends were.

 

[84projectFORD]

Have you lifted the front corners up individually and checked the wheel bearings and ball joints for play. Then also shake the wheel side to side on the ground and checked for steering components play. My old bent tie tods were 1”x1/4” wall and they would flex where the bends were.

Yup, this is all a very fresh build but did check like you stated. Bearings are tight, tie rods are tight and not flexing (added a gusset to where the bend is), ball joints are TTX joints and tight. It all has maybe 15 miles on it at this point. She’s got 0 play in her

 

[philofab]

Does the truck gain a massive amount of toe in on droop from ride right?

I had a truck do this once with dropped pivots and I ended up flipping the tie rods on the knuckle to fix it.

 

[84projectFORD]

Does the truck gain a massive amount of toe in on droop from ride right?

I had a truck do this once with dropped pivots and I ended up flipping the tie rods on the knuckle to fix it.

Depends on what “massive” is? Lol pretty sure it was.

Got the new drop pitman arm on and what a massive difference. No more squealing tires or massive jacking up in the front end. Still has some but probably what everyone else has. Going to try a straight tie rod as well to see if it helps any too.

Interesting how I’ve ran into issues not really talked about on the net or the info is flat lost over the years. Between this issue and the fact that if you don’t c&t the beams, you can’t get max travel, it’s racked my brain a bit but we are about 99% there now lol

 

[96f-u250]

Sweeet! Good to hear the pitman arm helped.
Yes these fine details and problems are hard to come by…
I got some info from DR about beams and lifting the front end.
Lifting going straight forward is toe in.
Lifting going straight backwards is toe out.
Idk how true this is, or who it was from, but seemed like a good starting point for this issue.

 

[84projectFORD]

Sweeet! Good to hear the pitman arm helped.
Yes these fine details and problems are hard to come by…
I got some info from DR about beams and lifting the front end.
Lifting going straight forward is toe in.
Lifting going straight backwards is toe out.
Idk how true this is, or who it was from, but seemed like a good starting point for this issue.

That’s not wrong and what they will do. Didn’t not matter with my toe 0’ed, toed out or toed in for my situation though. It’s simply the pivot point on the pitman arm being too far off from the imaginary line drawn through the pass side pivot points and not being anywhere close to the tie rod pivot on the pitman arm.

It’s probably not an issue for factory trucks because they aren’t raking the frame like I did. Also means I’ll have to either make my own swingers or lower anyone else’s down farther than they have you mount them due to my situation

 

[philofab]

FYI, dropped pivots make more travel than C+T beams. You can only max the center joint out so far on droop before it fails.

C+T beams make more ground clearance and the pivots have less leverage on them. I tend to drop pivots these days since I like to go around corners without the inside wheel in the air.

Happy you got it figured out tho.

 

[84projectFORD]

FYI, dropped pivots make more travel than C+T beams. You can only max the center joint out so far on droop before it fails.

C+T beams make more ground clearance and the pivots have less leverage on them. I tend to drop pivots these days since I like to go around corners without the inside wheel in the air.

Happy you got it figured out tho.

I’m at 16.5”, clearanced center axle and no bind when spinning with both axles at full droop (actually still have room for more droop between the slip yoke and clearancing). Im sure you can get more with drop brackets but clearance at full bump become an issue unless you up tire size. 4wd isn’t going to be used at speed as it has a full time locker in the front (maybe on beaches/sand or other very loose conditions). I wanted the clearance for rocks and at full bump since I’m on 33’s and less leverage on the mounts and crossmember. Eventually I’ll upgrade axles to chromo or RCV but we will see if I break them first. Chromo will most likely be more than enough

 

[Giant Geoff]

I do zero tow, 2* negative on the camber but do more drop on the pitman arm.
For the street, I have 2 limit strap locations, 1 for full droop and 1, so it will not droop out from ride height, to tame it on the street.