Dual IBP shock package

[Connorellisx]

So im by no means a shock guy. But I do have a theory and wanted to see what someone with more knowledge than myself would think.

So I currently have King 2.5 IBP Coilovers on my front an arm suspension and King 3.0 Coilovers on my rear links. My question is how do you think running a 3.5 IBP smoothie body shock rather than a traditional bypass would work. Also with the resi mounted piggyback style creating a fluid locked zone as a bump zone… and running different needle sizes to create more zones through the cycle?

I know it wouldn’t work as good as a traditional 4.0 5 tube bypass, but the goal would be to run pretty close to as good.

Reasons I even consider it…

1. Bypass chatter / Clicking, this will be a family Prerunner/ track hopper rig that will have the wife and kids on board mostly and creating a more enjoyable environment does mean… I get to use it more!

2. Ease of rebuilding, just using the tune I had prior and not needing to take it out and spend a whole day turning tubes to get it back to what it was




Here is an example of the lower mounted resi on Kyle Leduc’s truck creating the hydrolocked zone


This is a rough sketch of the “theory”
Zone 1 being the hydrolocked zone
Zones 2,3,4 would both have different compressions and rebounds to tune
Zone 5 being the compression adjusters

But anyways maybe I’m an idiot but maybe it would work!

 

[DP_Tundra]

Any secondary shock will help, smoothies included.

 

[84Prerunner]

So you’re talking about running dual IBPs on the rear? I get the idea of no bypass noise but holy f that would be a cluster to tune. I’d run a traditional bypass or just a single big IBP

 

[Connorellisx]

So you’re talking about running dual IBPs on the rear? I get the idea of no bypass noise but holy f that would be a cluster to tune. I’d run a traditional bypass or just a single big IBP

I’m talking dual IBPs for both front and rear! I already have them for the Coilovers.
And absolutely agree it would be a pain to get the tune dialed in. But once it was… I THINK it could work really well and be a lot more enjoyable to actually use for long periods of time. Being that it’s not a race vehicle I’m okay with a slight sacrifice it performance for some added comfort.

 

[DialedShockPrep]

Nothing off the shelf would do as you are describing, at least not to the extent you want. King IBP needles and shafts aren’t available in very long lengths like you have drawn but you could always make your own and drill/hollow out the shafts further. Also, the compression adjuster is not a zone like you have drawn, it’s just a valve restricting fluid flow transfer from the main cylinder to the resi. At best everything would be stacked up towards the very top of the shock, likely the last 25%.

Now the better option to achieve what you want to do would be to look into scaling up the Fox IBP style shocks. A 3.5” outer cylinder with a 3.0” piston and inner cylinder with porting for flow/zones. That would get you the progression you are after without any noise, a solid bump zone, a droop/top out zone, and however many zones you wanted in the middle. Again, nothing off the shelf is available so you will be getting creative on how to keep the inner cylinder from slamming itself to pieces.

 

[Connorellisx]

Nothing off the shelf would do as you are describing, at least not to the extent you want. King IBP needles and shafts aren’t available in very long lengths like you have drawn but you could always make your own and drill/hollow out the shafts further. Also, the compression adjuster is not a zone like you have drawn, it’s just a valve restricting fluid flow transfer from the main cylinder to the resi. At best everything would be stacked up towards the very top of the shock, likely the last 25%.

Now the better option to achieve what you want to do would be to look into scaling up the Fox IBP style shocks. A 3.5” outer cylinder with a 3.0” piston and inner cylinder with porting for flow/zones. That would get you the progression you are after without any noise, a solid bump zone, a droop/top out zone, and however many zones you wanted in the middle. Again, nothing off the shelf is available so you will be getting creative on how to keep the inner cylinder from slamming itself to pieces.

Okay thank you! I feel like that truly was the more detailed explanation I was looking for. Although I’ve seen king sells sizes like 10” needles for the IBP shocks.
The other issue I didn’t mention that I have is running an 18/20 shock package in the rear to keep the shocks outboard of the cab but the travel numbers up. The problem there is king only offers a 20” shock in a 3.5 or larger diameter with the 1.25” shafts. Fox I’m not sure if they offer it at all.

 

[2012SVTSC]

I'm running a dual IBP set up on the front of my truck, one is a Raptor 3.0 and the other is a king 3.5, I ened up removing all of the valveing on the fox tube so that it is basically just a coil carrier 90% of the time. It has pretty aggressive valveing on the piston so I have a good bump zone and catch zone. But that's all that shock dose.

The kings handle the rest of the work.

Currently I think this set up works pretty good and packaged nice but it is a pain to tune and I like to try little things at a time so for me I underestimated how much work it is for even a small adjustment and God forbid I do a valve change and it's worse. Bit too much work.

 

[marcytech]

Are you gonna be doing this on a short course style link set up with the shocks close to 1:1 motion ratio?

 

[Connorellisx]

Are you gonna be doing this on a short course style link set up with the shocks close to 1:1 motion ratio?

It would be on a traditional style link with a full
Back half!

View attachment IMG_3938.jpeg

 

[marcytech]

I hate bypasses for all the noise they make also. I think any secondary shock will be good

dialed shock prep did a similar dropped resi port on my front coilovers on my old truck and that was a huge increase in shock performance.

 

[Connorellisx]

I hate bypasses for all the noise they make also. I think any secondary shock will be good

dialed shock prep did a similar dropped resi port on my front coilovers on my old truck and that was a huge increase in shock performance.

The funny thing is it’s your video that is the reason I know that it would add that zone, also noticed that kings newest UTV shocks utilize the same thing to create that sorta bump zone!
I could always slap a set of 4.0 bypasses and I’m sure it would run great, I just feel like I’m willing to make a sacrifice in some ride quality for the sake of ride enjoyability. In the end It’s a family Prerunner, not a race truck!
I also see wings world did an episode on a Robby Gordon prerunner and the IBPs seem to run really freakin good, obviously not an option available to me but I think that’s the goal is to re-create that somehow!
Like I said earlier my front kit has 2.5x10 IBPs already, and the rear I have 3.0x18 IBPs for. I’m doing the Izzy fab back half on my truck that runs a 18” Coilover and 20” bypass, so if it was a dual IBP set up I’m half way there

 

[Giant Geoff]

I’m adding a second shock to mine right now and I am making it with a 6 inch zone, working to my coil over that has a 3 inch needle so it’ll be like a 3 tube bypass that has two compressions zones, but within two shocks. I don’t think King makes a needle longer them 3.0", but I can do it for you with Solid Shock Co.?

 

[marcytech]

You’re lookin at it all wrong. I don’t think you’ll be sacrificing anything. Like you said it’s not a race truck, sacrificing discomfort for maybe a couple miles an hour faster down Barstow main (30 second ride) sounds silly to me. No where else will you benefit from having giant bypasses over a secondary 3.0 ibp imo and even in that situation the benefit will be marginal.

But that’s just my opinion. I’ve never been a big “get the biggest shocks ever” guy .

Build what’s gonna suite you the best and what you’ll be excited to get into and sit in for hours at a time with the family. make it work the best you can and learn to drive it. There will ALWAYS be a faster truck no matter how big and how many bypasses you got.

 

[Connorellisx]

You’re lookin at it all wrong. I don’t think you’ll be sacrificing anything. Like you said it’s not a race truck, sacrificing discomfort for maybe a couple miles an hour faster down Barstow main (30 second ride) sounds silly to me. No where else will you benefit from having giant bypasses over a secondary 3.0 ibp imo and even in that situation the benefit will be marginal.

But that’s just my opinion. I’ve never been a big “get the biggest shocks ever” guy .

Build what’s gonna suite you the best and what you’ll be excited to get into and sit in for hours at a time with the family. make it work the best you can and learn to drive it. There will ALWAYS be a faster truck no matter how big and how many bypasses you got.

You are definitely not wrong, there will always be a faster truck with more power and bigger shocks. At one point that was the goal, but as my mindset has changed with the addition of a wife and kid.
It’s now mostly about the vehicle that’s going to be the most enjoyable to use and do Mojave trail and explore, watch the races and such and be able to pull off and slam a few capri suns! Bigger mufflers and smaller shocks may just be the ticket.

I still want it to be capable of ripping the whoops and to hit some jumps here and there though, so I guess I’m just trying to make sure I’m not giving up on that entirely either.

I also don’t see myself twisting tubes for hours trying to get the tuning just right, I just want to turn the key and go use the damn thing!

It truly seems to be a heavily debated topic whenever I’ve brought it up but then it seems there’s also a lot like minded people that want the same thing out of their rigs, many times it’s people who have had the big stuff before trying to back it down a little that truly understand the goal!

 

[marcytech]

You definitely won’t be giving up on Hittin any whoops or jumps at all.
My old Silverado below had a single 3.0 coilover in the rear and 2.5 coilover in the front. Non ibp.
It did everything I ever asked of it and more all while people swore it would never work lol.

The old ranger had a 3.0 coilover in the front and 2.5/2.5 (bypass I know but still way smaller than what you’re talkin about) combo in the back and that thing was a fucking animal.

To further prove your last point, I Had both those awesome machines and now I’m building a stock width bolt on parts explorer

Hell, look at Danny giannini, he had all kinds of cool crazy trucks with coilovers and big 4.4 bypasses and ultimately his ideal build which he just finished was a truck with a single coilover each corner!

 

[Connorellisx]

You definitely won’t be giving up on Hittin any whoops or jumps at all.
My old Silverado below had a single 3.0 coilover in the rear and 2.5 coilover in the front. Non ibp.
It did everything I ever asked of it and more all while people swore it would never work lol.

The old ranger had a 3.0 coilover in the front and 2.5/2.5 (bypass I know but still way smaller than what you’re talkin about) combo in the back and that thing was a fucking animal.

To further prove your last point, I Had both those awesome machines and now I’m building a stock width bolt on parts explorer

Hell, look at Danny giannini, he had all kinds of cool crazy trucks with coilovers and big 4.4 bypasses and ultimately his ideal build which he just finished was a truck with a single coilover each corner!

Danny is a perfect example! And short course is a well proven set up and truly that was my original goal. I just got bit by the bug and kept collecting bigger and bigger parts for years before finally cutting the truck up.

I do believe In the end of it all less truly can be more, it’s so easy to get stuck in the specs and what is the best period.. when what’s best for YOU can be an entirely different thing.

I tell people all the time I wish I kept it simpler, and cheaper, and that the truck that goes out every weekend is worth 100x more than the one that sits in the garage for years getting built. I still do feel the need for a cage is there for the unknown that can happen, but outside of that I just want it to be a Cadillac that you can spend 8 hours in if you wanted without getting a dang migraine. If that means I’m doing 70 when some other guy is doing 90 I really don’t care!

 

[the bodj]

I get migraines easily, so I built mine without bypasses - just a single 2.5" coilover and hydro bump at each corner. Others can verify that the truck rips. I can't flat foot it through the big gnarly stuff that @84Prerunner can with his IBP truck (it's pretty wild), but I'm stoked with how capable it is, while still being plush and quiet (relatively).

 

[Connorellisx]

I get migraines easily, so I built mine without bypasses - just a single 2.5" coilover and hydro bump at each corner. Others can verify that the truck rips. I can't flat foot it through the big gnarly stuff that @84Prerunner can with his IBP truck (it's pretty wild), but I'm stoked with how capable it is, while still being plush and quiet (relatively).

I’m also susceptible to migraines myself, I’ve gotten them from the exhaust being too loud for too dang long.

It’s honestly a proven set up especially when you get to the IBPs, there’s plenty of trucks like the cop
Cruiser after a good tune they rip the dang whoops! I’ve just never seen Dual IBPs being utilized before, especially not with a full
Back half probably 28” of travel in the rear truck and 18” of travel race kit on the front.

And in the end if I don’t like it… it’s a heavy investment and probably hard to sell them unless someone else had the same goals in mind… but I’m leaning more towards that direction.

Seems like the shock guys are kind the “ehhh it will work but not that great” but what is great? I’m not pulling up to Menzies trying to see what my garage built truck can keep up with lol

 

[the bodj]

I think the shock builders are saying there is a cheaper way to get essentially the same performance you're looking for.

My truck is strapped at 16" in the front and 21" in the back (about 8" up travel in front and 12" out back).

 

[marcytech]

What were all saying is it’s gonn work perfectly good with just a coilover each corner. A second shock of any kind will also only help not hurt